Burns fears Greens victory, Saulo believes Libs can win it
“Two tremendous candidates up on stage tonight, two champions of our community,” said Alon Casutto.
Labor MP for Macnamara Josh Burns and Liberal candidate for Macnamara Benson Saulo engaged in a passionate debate on April 9 at Temple Beth Israel, on who would be the best candidate for the Macnamara electorate, and who would better represent the concerns of the Jewish community. Around 10 per cent of voters in Macnamara are Jewish, and it is the second largest electorate of Jews in Australia.
The debate was co-hosted by the Australian Jewish News, Zionism Victoria, the Jewish Community Council of Victoria, the Zionist Federation of Australia, the Executive Council of Australian Jewry, the Australia/Israel & Jewish Affairs Council and Temple Beth Israel. The debate was generally amicable except for a few instances of heckling directed towards Josh Burns.
Zionist Federation of Australia CEO Alon Casutto introduced the candidates and said the debate was an opportunity to remember that we are blessed to have “two tremendous candidates up on stage tonight, two champions of our community”.
Burns is a graduate of Mount Scopus and has been the representative of Macnamara since 2019 and in his opening remarks said, “I’m not here to sugarcoat. I’m not here to describe anything that hasn’t been probably the most difficult two years of my personal and professional life… each and every person in this room knows how difficult it’s been for our community. Being a member of Parliament at the time where we’ve seen antisemitism at a point in which we never thought it would ever happen to our generation, but it did. And personally inside the Labor Party of course, it’s been difficult… there’s been moments of time where I’ve spoken out against some of the policies of my party, and I haven’t done so with any great enthusiasm. I haven’t done so because that’s the best way to get outcomes. I’ve done so because I felt that our community needed a voice inside the conversation, inside the room and inside government.”
“But what I’ve tried to do more so than speak out, is to get things done for our community.”
Burns pointed to his record on countering antisemitism, saying “When there were Neo-Nazis marching outside in Parliament, I went on national television and said that we need to outlaw this. And I worked with the State governments of New South Wales and Victoria and in the federal government, and we now have legislation across those three jurisdictions. When 600 Jewish creatives were doxxed, I stood up publicly and said that we need to outlaw this. And we now have legislation that was passed through the federal parliament that has outlawed doxing. And when the Adass synagogue burned down, I was the first MP who arrived there, and I stood up next to my Liberal colleagues on a press conference, because I wanted to show that there needed to be a united voice there… I then set to work with the community, with the Adass community, to actually do the work of trying to figure out how to rebuild the shule, the insurance and all the planning, all of the stuff that needed to get done. I took the Prime Minister there twice. Then we budgeted $30 million to rebuild the synagogue, $1.2 million for security, and we also committed $250,000 to restore the Torahs.”
He also referred to leading a Parliamentary committee that investigated antisemitism at universities. “I spent my summer working with AUJS and working with the young leaders of our community, holding Vice Chancellors to account, trying to go through the difficult job, not only the policy that is required in order to change processes, to make it better for staff and students, but to do something even more difficult to try and change the culture of our university sector. We haven’t fixed everything overnight, but there have been massive steps forward, where our university sector now has a definition on antisemitism… we are seeing progress improving complaints processes and ensuring there’s accountability around that.”
Burns said, “I have stood up and been a proud Jew inside the Labor Party. This is my community. This is our community, and I’m not denying it’s been a difficult period. Of course it has, but I also know that from the moment I was the first MP to touch down in Israel to the moment where I stood outside watching some of the worst antisemitism that I’ve ever seen in my lifetime, I have done my best to stand up for our people, and I will continue to do that, because the job that we have is to push down antisemitism back into the far corners of society, and to ensure that the country that gave my family a safe haven, our family and our community a safe haven, is returned for now and for the generations to come.”
In Benson Saulo’s opening remarks he discussed his Aboriginal heritage from his mother’s side and how she grew up in severe poverty and that his father was born in Papua New Guinea and became a Christian Minister.
Discussing antisemitism in the wake of the 7 October 2023 Hamas attacks, Saulo said “What was the greatest travesty was actually what we saw on the steps of the Opera House, the Israeli flag was burning, where we heard chants that we’d never think, that we’d ever, ever hear in our life, and then we heard complete and utter silence. There was silence from our leaders. There was silence from the Labor Party. There was silence when we heard this horrible chants that suddenly spewed out from the Opera House onto our streets here that shut down our CBD week after week, when we saw it on university campuses as well continued silence… when I meet with you, the thing that I hear most is that the community does not feel supported. Does not feel like the government have their back.
They feel let down by the lack of leadership that they’ve seen in Labor, which has largely abandoned the Jewish community.
And ultimately what the community here is really calling for is some clear, tangible action to address antisemitism and clear sighted leadership, which I believe that only a Peter Dutton coalition government can actually deliver.
“And I’m really proud to be able to stand with the likes of Peter Dutton, James Patterson, and also our very own David Southwick, where we are calling out acts of antisemitism, where we are going to support and work with the community, and where we will invest in rebuilding not only the Adass synagogue, but also the fabric of the community, and backing great projects like the Jewish Arts Quarter.”
The first question was to Burns on preferences, “Will you be putting the Greens last?”
Burns replied, “I’ve obviously made my views clear. Inside the Labor Party, there is a ballot process that is going to be completed on Friday, and then the nominations will be drawn, and all of the candidates will be listed. There won’t be a how to vote from any political organisation that we released before then. So if it’s only days away, and then we’ll give the full answer.”
Burns added that he feared a Greens victory in Macnamara. “If we do not win enough number one votes, then the Greens will obviously come into second place. That is the biggest concern that I’ve got… my staff don’t like me saying this, but I really like Benson. He’s a nice guy, but he’s not the person I’m worried about winning this seat. The only people who can win this seat from me are the Greens. And if the Greens form into the top two, then think about the people who make up this electorate, the young progressive people from Elwood, from St Kilda, from Windsor, from South Melbourne, from South Bank, and we are a proud and large Jewish community, but we’re only 10 per cent of the electorate of Macnamara. The preferences, regardless of what the Labor Party says, are not going to the Liberal Party from those young people. And they’re the… Labor Green voters who are ultimately decided the last election, who will decide this one here in Macnamara, they’re the overwhelming majority of the seat I am focused on.
“I’m asking you not just to keep out the Greens. I’m asking you to support me at this election, because if you do, you get a voice in the room.
“You get someone who is of the community, who has fought for the last couple of years and will continue to do my best inside the Labor Party. And we need good people across all sides of politics.”
Condemning the Greens on antisemitism Burns said, “I’ve seen what the members of the Greens party have done in Parliament. Now, one of the most egregious examples that I witnessed was when Jenny Leong, the member for Newtown, said that we had tentacles spread across Australian society… not one Green member of State or Federal Parliament said anything. And I was the one who stood up in the federal parliament who made a speech calling out the Greens… and then wrote to Adam Bandt that afternoon, within a couple of hours, Jenny Leong released this mealy mouthed apology, Adam Bandt wrote back to me … saying, well, she apologised, I’m fully aware… of how the members of the Greens party have behaved. I’m aware about how they have not been able to tackle antisemitism in their ranks. I’m aware of how they have weaponised it, and I’ve made those views clear inside the party.”
Saulo pushed back on Burns claim that the Liberals don’t have a chance of winning Macnamara, “I want to say here that we can absolutely win.”
Saulo added there was broad backlash against Labor, “I understand the frustration and the anger towards Labor, and you’re not alone. It’s right across the electorate, the amount of people that have historically voted Labor across Port Melbourne, Middle Park, Albert Park, who look at what’s happening here at the state level, what’s happening at a federal level, and are determined to kick Labor out.
“While Josh points out that that there’s a contingent of young voters that are out there that are really passionate about, obviously, climate change, they’re passionate about housing. This is something that me as an individual within a party and deeply passionate about as an Aboriginal person, I view ourselves as custodians. I’m thinking about what the next generation will inherit. I’m thinking about what my three kids are going to inherit, what kind of world that they’re going to live in, and the only way that we’re going to deliver that is be able to deliver a strong government that stands up against the tyranny of terrorism, that stands up for Australians.”
When the topic of Israel’s war against Hamas was brought up, Burns was asked about those who feel betrayed by Labor’s response – particularly with regards to recognition of a Palestinian state. Burns said, “Now I dream of peace for our families and friends in Israel… But, as the Prime Minister said last week… until Hamas is no longer in a position to govern, or is no longer governing the people of Gaza, then we are not in a position to move forward on recognition.”
He added, “I’m not pretending it’s perfect, but I am saying to all of you that we can’t disengage from the Labor Party, and we have to re engage with the Labor Party as a community. We can’t have it so that one side of politics is only for the community, and the community is only for one side of politics, it will end up very, very badly. And I’m saying to you that as long as I’m in there, I will carry that and do what I can on behalf of our community, to ensure that we have voices inside the room.”
“I think what’s abundantly clear is that it’s actually the Labor Party that has left the Jewish community.
Saulo remarked in response, “This is no more evident than Senator Penny Wong overturning decades of bipartisanship support for our foreign policy and our support and the security of Israel, and that’s happened at the UN at the highest level.”
Saulo added, “We are a strong believer in a two-state solution, but how can you negotiate with bad actors? How can you come to the table in a willing and an open negotiation when you know there’s 50 of your own citizens being held hostage with a terrorist agents?… We have a terrorist organisation that is sick, that seeks the destruction and the eradication of Israel and Jewish people. So right now, when we see the shifts in foreign policy, when we see the weak action here in antisemitism, what I say to that is Labor has its priorities wrong, and Labor does not have the best interests of the Jewish community at heart.”
The debate also discussed broader issues including cost of living, housing and the environment.
Saulo said, “I’m a long time renter so housing affordability is something that’s really critical to me and my family.. over the last two years, labor has brought in over a million people from overseas, and only built in the last two years, around 200,000 homes. And so it is clear there is a supply demand issue … We’re actually setting up a $5 billion housing trust that will actually look to invest into the infrastructure and the utilities needed for greenfield investment, and that’s going to help… push down the cost of housing” he also added that the Liberals are planning to allow people to “access up to $50,000 for the superannuation… Because we do know the greatest asset that you’ll ever own is actually your home.”
Burns replied, “Superannuation for housing that was done in New Zealand and drove up prices dramatically and home ownership decline…. It actually is going to lock more people out of the housing market. What is the option that we try to do in order to stimulate supply growth in the housing sector? It’s been to try and work with the states and territories to unlock planning and unlock the costly delays in housing projects that has meant that people are not building as many homes right now. We’ve also tried to stimulate the growth of housing by the housing Australian Future Fund, which goes towards social and affordable housing and housing for women and children fleeing domestic violence… We also have put in tax base and tax receipts for businesses and property developers to be able to build for rent.”
On tackling climate change Saulo said a Liberal Government would seek to increase renewables, utilise gas and plan for nuclear energy. Burns replied, “The private sector has lined up outside my office and said, all we need to do in order to build the energy mix of the future is to have more certainty around environmental approvals and to be able to move that through faster, just like housing, every month delayed in a project is a month costed… There is no economic modelling that suggests that nuclear energy will do anything other than take a very long time and cost people a lot of money.”
In his closing remarks Saulo discussed the connection between his indigenous heritage and the Jewish community, “I think the connection and the affinity between Aboriginal and Torres, Strait Islanders and in the Jewish community and Israel is a sense of connection to country.”
“As our team have been campaigning and we’ve been working hard to win Macnamara, what I felt from the community is that they have felt let down. They felt concerned. They felt, they felt like their security is at risk, and unfortunately, with the rise of antisemitism and all the things that we’ve addressed and touched on tonight, unfortunately with the lack of leadership and clear eyed values driven leadership that we desperately need in Australia, we’ve actually let the community down.
“And I’m really proud to be able to stand here and to put my hand up and say that I will stand with the Jewish community here.”
I will stand with Israel, and I will stand as a strong representative for Macnamara in Parliament, if I’m fortunate to win your votes and fortunate to represent Macnamara that you know that you have a friend in me, you have a strong advocate in me, and I’ll continue to fight for and address the issues that we are seeing right across our communities, around cost of living, around crime, safety and antisemitism, right through to the key issues that are impacting our household finance so you have a strong advocate in me, and I’m really grateful for all the wonderful support and being embraced by the community.”
In his closing remarks Burns stated, “I think that we are heading towards being reelected in this country, and I think that the coalition are slipping right now and have not outlined a vision for our country. And I think that the interests of the Jewish community need to be served by people inside the room… Now I’m of this community. I grew up here. I went to Mount Scopus. I played basketball for Maccabi… Every time I’m in the newspaper, it says Josh Burns, who is Jewish, and I wear it proudly. But what we need to do as a community now I’m saying this sincerely, is not turn our back on an institution in this country. Now, I’ve tried to get outcomes for this community, and I have, I’ve… made legislative change, and I’ve been able to secure significant amounts of investment into this community for security and for the future.”
The debate did not include the Greens candidate for Macnamara Sonya Semmens, who was in the audience during the debate. Semmens described the decision not to include her as disappointing to The AJN, “It means the Jewish community won’t have the chance to hear from all political candidates and make their vote count to the fullest. I have been working hard to listen to all members of the Jewish community, and even when we differ in our views I’ve felt those conversations have been important and valuable.”
Executive Council of the Australian Jewry Co-CEO Peter Wertheim told The AJN, “The Greens’ problem is not that the Jewish community is unable to ascertain where their party stands on issues that are of particular concern to us. On the contrary, the Greens’ problem is that we are all too well aware of their party’s positions on those issues. For the last 18 months we have heard the Greens spew their bile about Israel and the local Jewish community. A Greens MP spread antisemitic slurs about the “tentacles” of power of the Jewish community, and a Greens staffer even falsely accused us of burning down one of our own synagogues. As Inner West Sydney Mayor Darcy Byrne noted, the Greens have been whipping up antisemitism ever since October 7, 2023. Frankly, we have had a gutful. We are not obliged to engage in the masochistic exercise of giving the Greens a platform to tell us more of the same. We have every right to invite or not invite any guest speakers we choose.”
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