We’re hoping for a miracle

What is the general sense among the Jewish community in Kharkiv and Ukraine at the moment?

Our situation is very fluid. Every few hours the situation seems to be changing, hopefully changing for the better. Today was the first time that we’re starting to see what is, well, hopefully a good sign. There’s cautious optimism at the moment that they’re going to be pulling back, and that there won’t be actually a war. Not just the Jewish community, but the entire Ukraine have been under a lot of pressure the last few weeks, especially the last few days, when different embassies started pulling out, and when America and Israel called on their citizens to leave.

The Australian Embassy actually called me a month ago to know what my plans were. They wanted to let me know that they’re not taking responsibility for me if I stay. They wanted to know what my plan B is. I said, I don’t have a plan B, this is where I live.

We are the heads of the community. And you know, like the captain on the ship, we can’t just jump ship when we’re the ones who are holding the community together. That’s basically what I told them.

It’s been extremely interesting the last few days – what is being said on the news and what is happening on the ground seems like two different worlds, like the whole world is building this imminent, imminent, imminent invasion. And on the streets, life is going on as normal. I’m not exactly sure why – if it’s just apathy of the local people, or they just can’t believe that it could actually happen. But people are nervous. People are concerned. And now with this last few hours, there is very cautious optimism that maybe it just won’t happen. So that’s what we’re hoping for. It’s like Purim Katan. It’s like a small Purim today. So we’re just hoping for a little, small miracle. And that’s a sign that it’ll just move past.

Do you think then maybe it was just Russia waving its sword to show they’re still powerful, rather than actually a real threat of invasion?

I’m not a politician. I really can’t tell. I don’t know. I think it was just a trial balloon. I hope that’s what [Putin] was planning to do. And if he only wants to get the attention, or he wants just to see what’s happening hopefully that’s enough for him. But it’s very, very hard to tell. It’s not a simple kind of a situation. We have a Jewish president. And he, basically, has the whole time been calling on people to keep calm. He didn’t say don’t listen to the news, but don’t try to get affected by the news, don’t get worked up with the whole, you know, the pressure that has been coming from all outside influences.

I’ve had journalists calling me from all over the world, like, you know, what are you buying? What are you putting aside? Are you collecting food? We’re not doing that, not because we are in denial, but we just don’t want to build on that panic.

I mean, we’re 40 kilometres away. And if there would be, God forbid, a war, a few bags of flour is not going to help. We are a Jewish community of 30,000 people. So you’re talking about a lot of people.

You can’t go towards the border because that’s where Russia will be coming from. So a lot of people just come to us and are very, very relieved that we’re staying.

A lot of people came to us on Shabbos, more than usual, to daven. My husband also has the whole time, every few minutes, someone would come into his office and put on tefillin, just to do something and just to make sure that, you know, we’re here and we’re staying.

I think that’s very encouraging to them.

I think that takes away the panic.

So as leaders of the community, you feel it’s your responsibility to be there for them and to support them through this difficult time.

A hundred per cent. I had a Zoom with over 200 Jewish women from all over Ukraine last night. And the message was that, you know, we’ve got to keep ourselves positive. Our mindset is what’s really going to help us keep going, we all said a prayer together, we all gave charity together. We put on some like happy music to pick people up. And everyone needed that.

We weren’t so sure because on the one hand, you see this calmness and quietness in the street. And we didn’t want to get people more nervous. But once people started leaving, and there were evacuation planes – a plane went today direct to Israel.

I think when people started leaving, I think that’s where the panic really started setting in during the last few days. Everyone sort of felt like maybe somebody knows something that we don’t know that they’re all running away from here. So the fact that we stayed here is very, very encouraging to the people. The whole Sunday was just people like “everyone’s leaving. Are you staying?’”

And it’s like, “Yes, yes, we’re here, don’t worry. We’re here.”

Did many people get on board the Israeli plane or not?

Well, only Israelis can go. And actually not as many as they thought would actually leave. It was very strongly encouraged. Planes came. But as far as I’ve heard from a lot of people they weren’t all totally full. A lot of people have a lot of ties here. I mean, I’ve been here 32 years since 1990. I’m here because I’m with the community but there’s a lot of people who have an Israeli passport, who this is their home base. They don’t have anywhere to go in Israel.

The Israeli embassy had a Zoom with all the rabbis on Sunday, and said you know, encourage whoever came to go. But practically speaking, of the 30,000 Jews you’re talking about a few hundred who have an Israeli passport, not even thousands.

You’ve got twelve children – one of them got married last month.

Yes, that was my daughter and that was also a little bit of pressure for the guests who were coming. We were all thinking that Corona was going to be the issue and then that was added to by the issue of an imminent war. But thank God we had the wedding.

I have a son, Mendel, who when we came to Kharkiv he was eight months old. He’s now also here with four of his children, so I have grandchildren here.

Presumably you’re worried for them in the current environment. Apart from being strong for the community, you’re concerned for your own family?

We had a Zoom on Sunday night for all the rabbis’ wives together. We all decided that we were going to make ourselves strong before we inspire everybody else. We had a Zoom for each other, just to speak to each other .

When we were here in 1991, we had a similar situation when there was a coup. We came when it was still the Soviet Union. And in the summer of 1991. There was a coup in Moscow with Yeltsin and everyone was worried that the Soviet Union was going to be returning and we were advised – all the foreigners were leaving – and a lot of people told my husband, if you want to stay, that’s your thing, but at least let your wife and your children leave. We were just a few rabbis at the time, so we sent a message to the Lubavitcher Rebbe in New York at the time to ask, “Should we stay? Or should we leave?”

We were actually in the middle of a summer camp. And the Rebbe said, “Finish the camp, everything’s going to be fine. Everybody should stay.”

And he was actually surprised at the question. So everything turned out fine. So we also hope that this story will end up [like that].

You know, it’s a little bit different, but in 2014 there was shooting in the streets, there was much more movement in this street.

But this time now is a more full-blown threat of war, you know, country versus country. In 2014 it was more like a game. It’s not really Russia. It was actually just some separatists who were fighting, and here was more like the big leagues, you could say.

Your family and friends in Australia must be concerned.

For sure, for sure. I’ll tell you the truth. I’m more battling phone calls from outside than phone calls from inside. The whole time I have people calling that I don’t even know who have relatives here. “Could you call them up?” I tell them, “Don’t worry.” I call up the family members and let them know that if they need anything we’re here.

It’s basically the families on the outside who are really extremely concerned and nervous. They’re the ones who are watching a different news than is being projected to the locals over here.

Are your parents Henry and Judy Amzalak telling you to come home to Australia, or are they just saying, ‘Be careful’?

I think my parents know that we won’t leave the community now. I was actually planning to come and visit Sydney next week after two years of Corona. I called them and told them I can’t leave my family like this. I haven’t seen my parents, they weren’t able to come to the wedding, so we’re just hoping things will calm down.

My mother-in-law also. She lives in Israel. And you know, the news is very threatening. She said, “You know, we’re very proud of you and everything like that. Maybe just send the kids.”

But listen, we’re hoping now from the last few hours. There’s hopeful optimism that this is just going to just pass and we’re not sure what happened and why it had to happen, but we’re hoping it will just end peacefully.